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	<title>Comments on: Like the Phoenix, Operation Puerto rises from the ashes</title>
	<atom:link href="http://pelotonjim.wordpress.com/2007/04/30/like-the-phoenix-operation-puerto-rises-from-the-ashes/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://pelotonjim.wordpress.com/2007/04/30/like-the-phoenix-operation-puerto-rises-from-the-ashes/</link>
	<description>Talking about things related to the sport of cycling</description>
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		<title>By: Sam</title>
		<link>http://pelotonjim.wordpress.com/2007/04/30/like-the-phoenix-operation-puerto-rises-from-the-ashes/#comment-15791</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sam]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2008 21:20:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pelotonjim.wordpress.com/2007/04/30/like-the-phoenix-operation-puerto-rises-from-the-ashes/#comment-15791</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I love the phoenix picture. Where can I get a hi-res copy and the rights to use it?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love the phoenix picture. Where can I get a hi-res copy and the rights to use it?</p>
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		<title>By: Jim</title>
		<link>http://pelotonjim.wordpress.com/2007/04/30/like-the-phoenix-operation-puerto-rises-from-the-ashes/#comment-10060</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jim]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Aug 2007 14:24:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pelotonjim.wordpress.com/2007/04/30/like-the-phoenix-operation-puerto-rises-from-the-ashes/#comment-10060</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Lets&#039;s face facts, doping is not going away. WADA is embarrassed that they cannot stop it. Unfortunately, innocent riders will be snared in WADA&#039;s net. Pound could care less about innocent casualties. However, the public has to accept that some teams have organized doping programs. Why do team officials and the UCI act so surprised when riders get caught? The demands on the riders has increased significantly. There&#039;s alot on the line: salary; team standing; UCI points; the ever increasing number of race; etc. However, be wary if a rider&#039;s answer to the question (Do you dope?) is, &quot;I have never tested positive&quot;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lets&#8217;s face facts, doping is not going away. WADA is embarrassed that they cannot stop it. Unfortunately, innocent riders will be snared in WADA&#8217;s net. Pound could care less about innocent casualties. However, the public has to accept that some teams have organized doping programs. Why do team officials and the UCI act so surprised when riders get caught? The demands on the riders has increased significantly. There&#8217;s alot on the line: salary; team standing; UCI points; the ever increasing number of race; etc. However, be wary if a rider&#8217;s answer to the question (Do you dope?) is, &#8220;I have never tested positive&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Debby</title>
		<link>http://pelotonjim.wordpress.com/2007/04/30/like-the-phoenix-operation-puerto-rises-from-the-ashes/#comment-3767</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Debby]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 May 2007 04:05:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pelotonjim.wordpress.com/2007/04/30/like-the-phoenix-operation-puerto-rises-from-the-ashes/#comment-3767</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;ll admit I laughed, though your post is too true to be funny. 

It is interesting to me that no one has come to Floyd&#039;s or anyone&#039;s defense. Usually the press will quote team members in other sports, or people in the industry, who will defend the character of the person. But in cycling there is always a resounding silence. Teammates and associates slowly back away from those accused of doping, as if they have a contagious disease. I can only imagine that it&#039;s fear of trial by association? I won&#039;t believe it&#039;s because &quot;they all do it&quot; and there is no one innocent left to defend.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ll admit I laughed, though your post is too true to be funny. </p>
<p>It is interesting to me that no one has come to Floyd&#8217;s or anyone&#8217;s defense. Usually the press will quote team members in other sports, or people in the industry, who will defend the character of the person. But in cycling there is always a resounding silence. Teammates and associates slowly back away from those accused of doping, as if they have a contagious disease. I can only imagine that it&#8217;s fear of trial by association? I won&#8217;t believe it&#8217;s because &#8220;they all do it&#8221; and there is no one innocent left to defend.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeremy J</title>
		<link>http://pelotonjim.wordpress.com/2007/04/30/like-the-phoenix-operation-puerto-rises-from-the-ashes/#comment-3765</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jeremy J]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 May 2007 02:30:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pelotonjim.wordpress.com/2007/04/30/like-the-phoenix-operation-puerto-rises-from-the-ashes/#comment-3765</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[When Frankie Andreu &quot;came clean&quot; and admitted EPO late in his career - it was interesting the resounding silence that spread across the cycling community.  At this point, I can only think of a few riders that truly have stated, &quot;I did it&quot; (Millar, Bergman Virenique).

In their quest to root out all &quot;evil doers&quot; in the cycling community - the UCI, ASO, WADA, (name your governing body) have created a true &quot;catch me if you can&quot; environment. Instead of the cat-n-mouse game surrounding the Puerto affair, it would be interesting if they took a different approach to encourage people really coming forward with information to understand the true extent of real doping in cycling.

It&#039;s even more silly that the team managers are all completely in the dark about any doping practices of their riders and become completely surprised when one of their rider&#039;s names appears.  Bjarne Riis (who just happened to win the TdF during what is considered the height of the EPO era - pre-testing/pre-Festina) response to accusations of his past and the behavior of his own riders is deplorable.

I love cycling and I love my bike.  But, right now, the problems do not lie with the behavior of the riders.  The cycling/doping federations have created an environment that can only result in the degradation of the sport - not purifying it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When Frankie Andreu &#8220;came clean&#8221; and admitted EPO late in his career &#8211; it was interesting the resounding silence that spread across the cycling community.  At this point, I can only think of a few riders that truly have stated, &#8220;I did it&#8221; (Millar, Bergman Virenique).</p>
<p>In their quest to root out all &#8220;evil doers&#8221; in the cycling community &#8211; the UCI, ASO, WADA, (name your governing body) have created a true &#8220;catch me if you can&#8221; environment. Instead of the cat-n-mouse game surrounding the Puerto affair, it would be interesting if they took a different approach to encourage people really coming forward with information to understand the true extent of real doping in cycling.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s even more silly that the team managers are all completely in the dark about any doping practices of their riders and become completely surprised when one of their rider&#8217;s names appears.  Bjarne Riis (who just happened to win the TdF during what is considered the height of the EPO era &#8211; pre-testing/pre-Festina) response to accusations of his past and the behavior of his own riders is deplorable.</p>
<p>I love cycling and I love my bike.  But, right now, the problems do not lie with the behavior of the riders.  The cycling/doping federations have created an environment that can only result in the degradation of the sport &#8211; not purifying it.</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel M</title>
		<link>http://pelotonjim.wordpress.com/2007/04/30/like-the-phoenix-operation-puerto-rises-from-the-ashes/#comment-3755</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Daniel M]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 May 2007 19:51:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pelotonjim.wordpress.com/2007/04/30/like-the-phoenix-operation-puerto-rises-from-the-ashes/#comment-3755</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[PJ,

I agree, there needs to be a much better way. I think the whole anti-doping system needs to be rebuilt, from the ground up. The Operacion Puerto mess, being dragged on and on and on and on, being left for dead, and then coming back to life, is just horrible. Now there&#039;s over 100 riders implicated. It almost seems as though the anti-doping and other authorities are out to kill the sport.

Two things need to happen:

One, the riders need a strong voice. Whether that&#039;s a union or not, they can decide for themselves. But a union seems like the obvious way to go. But there needs to be someone or some organization who can stand up to any possible abuses of the anti-doping system.

Two, the anti-doping system needs to be reformed so that, even while being tough on those who are proven cheaters, those who are accused aren&#039;t trampled on before a guilty verdict is returned. Riders&#039; rights must be respected, and the process must be fair to all. 

What&#039;s going on in OP and elsewhere is fundamentally unfair to the riders.

Leniency isn&#039;t the answer. If the authorities can prove someone doped -- beyond a reasonable doubt -- then that person should be punished. The current standard, the comfortable satisfaction of the panel, is capricious, at best. Who&#039;s to say that what satisfies one panel might not satisfy another. That&#039;s not a good standard that can be consistently applied, at least in my book.

Once a fair system, with proper checks and balances, can be built, then we need to bring all sports into the system. And the standards of justice must be the same -- from one country to another and from one sport to the next. (Same for the standards of what constitutes a doping infraction -- they need to be the same across all labs.) Some of the big sports do seem to ignore the doping in their midst. That&#039;s not a way to solve the doping problem in sports. 

OK, that&#039;s actually three things, isn&#039;t it? Anyway, that&#039;s where I&#039;d start.

- Rant]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PJ,</p>
<p>I agree, there needs to be a much better way. I think the whole anti-doping system needs to be rebuilt, from the ground up. The Operacion Puerto mess, being dragged on and on and on and on, being left for dead, and then coming back to life, is just horrible. Now there&#8217;s over 100 riders implicated. It almost seems as though the anti-doping and other authorities are out to kill the sport.</p>
<p>Two things need to happen:</p>
<p>One, the riders need a strong voice. Whether that&#8217;s a union or not, they can decide for themselves. But a union seems like the obvious way to go. But there needs to be someone or some organization who can stand up to any possible abuses of the anti-doping system.</p>
<p>Two, the anti-doping system needs to be reformed so that, even while being tough on those who are proven cheaters, those who are accused aren&#8217;t trampled on before a guilty verdict is returned. Riders&#8217; rights must be respected, and the process must be fair to all. </p>
<p>What&#8217;s going on in OP and elsewhere is fundamentally unfair to the riders.</p>
<p>Leniency isn&#8217;t the answer. If the authorities can prove someone doped &#8212; beyond a reasonable doubt &#8212; then that person should be punished. The current standard, the comfortable satisfaction of the panel, is capricious, at best. Who&#8217;s to say that what satisfies one panel might not satisfy another. That&#8217;s not a good standard that can be consistently applied, at least in my book.</p>
<p>Once a fair system, with proper checks and balances, can be built, then we need to bring all sports into the system. And the standards of justice must be the same &#8212; from one country to another and from one sport to the next. (Same for the standards of what constitutes a doping infraction &#8212; they need to be the same across all labs.) Some of the big sports do seem to ignore the doping in their midst. That&#8217;s not a way to solve the doping problem in sports. </p>
<p>OK, that&#8217;s actually three things, isn&#8217;t it? Anyway, that&#8217;s where I&#8217;d start.</p>
<p>- Rant</p>
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		<title>By: Ed</title>
		<link>http://pelotonjim.wordpress.com/2007/04/30/like-the-phoenix-operation-puerto-rises-from-the-ashes/#comment-3747</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ed]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 May 2007 14:40:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pelotonjim.wordpress.com/2007/04/30/like-the-phoenix-operation-puerto-rises-from-the-ashes/#comment-3747</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Generally I think labor unions do more harm than good but, in this case, daniel is right. By indicting over 100 riders in two years, &lt;b&gt;Cycling&lt;/b&gt; is cutting off it&#039;s nose to spite it&#039;s face. Who&#039;ll watch the TDF if nobody knows the riders? I&#039;ll watch but it won&#039;t be any fun. 

I&#039;m not advocating leniency on performance-enhancing drug use, nor should any unions hold &quot;cycling&quot; hostage with demands for leniency. I&#039;m just saying that the power of a riders&#039; union could force the league to be very careful about banning riders for two years because of simple suspicion.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Generally I think labor unions do more harm than good but, in this case, daniel is right. By indicting over 100 riders in two years, <b>Cycling</b> is cutting off it&#8217;s nose to spite it&#8217;s face. Who&#8217;ll watch the TDF if nobody knows the riders? I&#8217;ll watch but it won&#8217;t be any fun. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m not advocating leniency on performance-enhancing drug use, nor should any unions hold &#8220;cycling&#8221; hostage with demands for leniency. I&#8217;m just saying that the power of a riders&#8217; union could force the league to be very careful about banning riders for two years because of simple suspicion.</p>
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		<title>By: roy</title>
		<link>http://pelotonjim.wordpress.com/2007/04/30/like-the-phoenix-operation-puerto-rises-from-the-ashes/#comment-3744</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[roy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 May 2007 11:07:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pelotonjim.wordpress.com/2007/04/30/like-the-phoenix-operation-puerto-rises-from-the-ashes/#comment-3744</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I am so sad for Basso. Hope he comes out clean and rejoins Discovery.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am so sad for Basso. Hope he comes out clean and rejoins Discovery.</p>
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		<title>By: pelotonjim</title>
		<link>http://pelotonjim.wordpress.com/2007/04/30/like-the-phoenix-operation-puerto-rises-from-the-ashes/#comment-3743</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[pelotonjim]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 May 2007 10:57:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pelotonjim.wordpress.com/2007/04/30/like-the-phoenix-operation-puerto-rises-from-the-ashes/#comment-3743</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Rant,  There needs to be a better way.  Right now, some sports ignore things while cycling seems to overreact treating riders as disposable play things.  

I&#039;ll be the first to listen to any good ideas.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rant,  There needs to be a better way.  Right now, some sports ignore things while cycling seems to overreact treating riders as disposable play things.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;ll be the first to listen to any good ideas.</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel M</title>
		<link>http://pelotonjim.wordpress.com/2007/04/30/like-the-phoenix-operation-puerto-rises-from-the-ashes/#comment-3729</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Daniel M]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 May 2007 02:45:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pelotonjim.wordpress.com/2007/04/30/like-the-phoenix-operation-puerto-rises-from-the-ashes/#comment-3729</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Sometimes it&#039;s better not to do sequels. How many Rocky movies, or Rambo, Die Hard or Lethal Weapon movies do we need, anyway? OP2 will have all the same bile and bite as the first, though with fewer new faces implicated. But if my math is right and there&#039;s no duplication between the original and the remake, that&#039;s over 100 pros who are being accused. Will anyone be left to race in any of the major events?

I wonder who the guys are from, say, soccer or cricket or tennis or whatever other sports are covered by OP? We&#039;ve never heard about any of them, and there&#039;s supposedly 150 or more. Speaks to the need for a powerful union to represent the riders, doesn&#039;t it. I suspect that for the other sports represented, the reason we don&#039;t hear about the athletes is due to the powerful unions representing the athletes in those sports, as well as a system with greater respect for their rights. But I&#039;m just ranting on ...

- Rant]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sometimes it&#8217;s better not to do sequels. How many Rocky movies, or Rambo, Die Hard or Lethal Weapon movies do we need, anyway? OP2 will have all the same bile and bite as the first, though with fewer new faces implicated. But if my math is right and there&#8217;s no duplication between the original and the remake, that&#8217;s over 100 pros who are being accused. Will anyone be left to race in any of the major events?</p>
<p>I wonder who the guys are from, say, soccer or cricket or tennis or whatever other sports are covered by OP? We&#8217;ve never heard about any of them, and there&#8217;s supposedly 150 or more. Speaks to the need for a powerful union to represent the riders, doesn&#8217;t it. I suspect that for the other sports represented, the reason we don&#8217;t hear about the athletes is due to the powerful unions representing the athletes in those sports, as well as a system with greater respect for their rights. But I&#8217;m just ranting on &#8230;</p>
<p>- Rant</p>
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		<title>By: LuckyLab</title>
		<link>http://pelotonjim.wordpress.com/2007/04/30/like-the-phoenix-operation-puerto-rises-from-the-ashes/#comment-3727</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[LuckyLab]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 May 2007 01:19:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pelotonjim.wordpress.com/2007/04/30/like-the-phoenix-operation-puerto-rises-from-the-ashes/#comment-3727</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Truly unfortunate for Basso is having the bags test negative and having no recourse for the effective 2 year ban imposed upon him.  If that&#039;s the situation that comes to pass, riders really will need a strong union to adovcate for their rights to prevent the suspension without hearing that seems to be the latest rage.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Truly unfortunate for Basso is having the bags test negative and having no recourse for the effective 2 year ban imposed upon him.  If that&#8217;s the situation that comes to pass, riders really will need a strong union to adovcate for their rights to prevent the suspension without hearing that seems to be the latest rage.</p>
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